One Cup of Coffee with Financial Expert and Expert Mom Lauren Cobello

April: Hi, thank you so much for joining me in another edition of KOFE Talk, today we have Lauren Cobello. She is a frugal living expert, author, and speaker. She’s also been on a ton of tv programs helping people achieve financial freedom, including The Rachel Ray Show, she’s been on there many times, the Today Show, Good Morning America, Dr. Oz, and many others! She helps moms create financial freedom for their families by sharing simple ways they can take control of their life and cut back their spending. Her mission is really to help people live within their means and create a happier life, a life that they’ve always dreamed of. She’s also the founder of The Hard Money podcast, where she delves into financial topics like financial infidelity, how to spot a financial scam, medical debt, and how vulnerable Americans, really can get taken advantage of by the system. So, without further ado, welcome Lauren, thank you so much for agreeing to be on our podcast!

Lauren: Yeah thank you so much for having me, I’m really glad to be here!

April: Oh, great, great, so now Lauren, you are a self-proclaimed, or were self-proclaimed, shopaholic. Can you tell me a little bit about how                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          you came to the realization that you’re a shopaholic, and not just someone who’s like, I don’t know, free with their money? Just like shopping a little bit too much, I feel like there’s a distinction.

Lauren: Right, yeah no there definitely is a distinction, and I think for me, when I realized that I was shopping to kind of cure a feeling on the inside. You know, whether it was stress, or anxiety, or boredom, or whatever was going on, on the inside of me, I would turn to shopping as a coping mechanism. And I think that’s the big distinction between a normal spender, and somebody who is using shopping to cover up their feelings, so, I think that’s the big distinction.

April: Okay, was there an aha moment where you were like, gosh my spending is out of hand, I feel like this is more of an addiction? Was there like one thing, one time, that really hit it home for you?

Lauren: Yeah, I think for me, was when I really kind of sat down, and

figured out all of my debt, and the numbers, and then started trying to come up with a plan. You know, for many years, I just kept on trying to pay the minimum credit card balances, and, you know, stay ahead of the game. And I didn’t really, I guess, have the courage to sit down and take a look at all of the damage that I had done. Now, this was when I was in my early 20’s, so we’re talking, you know, over 15 years ago, and I just was so ashamed of the kind of the hole that I had gotten myself into, that I didn’t want to take a look at it. And so, that was a big aha moment for me. And then, the second one, for me, was when I got a knock on the door, and I had a $17,000 IRS bill, and I was being audited for a previous business that I had owned, and I was in $40,000 worth of debt. You know, this was back in 2008, when the housing market crashed, so I was underwater in my mortgage, didn’t see a way out with that, and then suddenly I have a $17,000 bill from the IRS due in 30 days. And I really was like, I’ve got to change everything I know about finances, and that was the beginning of my journey.

April: Gosh, I feel like the pressure of all of that must have been really immense.

Lauren: Yeah, it was, and I was pregnant with my second child, at that time; and so, I had one kid with another on the way. And since then, you know, I have four amazing children, and they don’t know that part of me, which is really cool. They don’t know the overspending, the addictive spending part, they know the budgeting mom, you know, who budgets and teaches other people how to do it. So, it’s really come full circle.

April: That’s amazing, and I know you use the word shame, and I feel like we still have so much financial shame in our culture. And I think the more that we can talk about situations that we’ve gotten in, either, you know, by our own doing, or out of our own control, but to really take that feeling of shame away from it. Because I feel like it just adds to the addictive nature of, maybe, hiding about money, and controlling money. So, do you have any words, or any ideas, to help people who might be dealing with shameful feelings around their spending?

Lauren: Yeah and I know you brought up my podcast, and that was the number one reason why I started The Hard Money talk show. Was to talk about these difficult financial situations, that nobody wants to talk about, right. And so, I think the first thing to do, is to get it out in the open and to talk about it. Because, once we get it out, it loses its power over us. And so, for me, talking about the shame, seeing where I was at, you know, talking to somebody else, who had been through it, it really helped loosen that shame. And that’s really what I try to do in all of my online courses, and my social media accounts, is to take that shame and throw it out the window. It’s like, okay, we’ve been there, I’ve been there. I know how you feel, the shame is going to keep you stuck, so let’s get rid of that. Let’s get it out in the open, let’s talk about it, let’s create a plan that you can stick to, and then once we do that, it seems like the shame really just lifts, and it’s a pretty miraculous thing.

April: Wow, wow, and you talk about a plan, so can you share with us a little bit about how you paid off the $40,000 of debt? What was your plan? How did you start? Because I feel like it’s going to be inspiring, and a lot of other people will be able to relate to that situation.

Lauren: Yeah, so the first thing I had to do was get really real about

where I was at, right. I had to take a look at the damage that I had done, I had to get rid of the shame, and I had to create a plan. So, the plan for me, was create a budget, write down everything that you owe, you know, create all of your debts and make a list of all of those debts and where you’re at, and then, make a list of all of your bills. After you’ve paid off all of your bills, all of your minimum credit card payments,

where are you at? And that money, for me, at the end of all of that, I had $200 a month, to pay for groceries, right. And I had to learn how to be super strategic, and intentional, with my food budget. And one of the things that I do on my website, is I create meal plans, freezer cooking meal plans, where you can feed your family 20 dinners for $200. And I teach you exactly how to assemble 20 meals for $200, and that’s really, kind of, you know, where that came from. Was, I have 200 to feed my family, right. So, here’s how to make 20 dinners for the month. So, I got really intentional with my grocery spending, I learned how to use coupons, I learned how to shop sales, freezer cook, I didn’t go out to eat for years. And then, I really focused on, okay, now that I’ve cut back on all of the things, that I can’t be spending money on, you know, I can’t get my nails done, I have to say no to Starbucks every day. You know, I had to, kind of, grieve these losses, right. Now, my “why” was I need to get out of this debt. My “why” had to be greater than all of the things I was giving up, and so, I had to set, you know, intentional goals about why I was doing this, and keep that in the forefront. But one of the biggest things, after that, was okay, now I have to learn how to make more money, okay. So, this is where, once I got really good at like learning how to coupon, and meal plan, I had a ton of friends, so I had like a church group that hired me, to teach this to their class. And then, I had a newspaper reach out to me, to teach this to the newspaper subscribers. And I tried to figure out ways to make extra cash, and that actually was what propelled me to start my website back in 2008; was all of these seminars that I was teaching. And the demand got so big, but, you know, I babysat, I did yard sales, I learned how to flip thrift store clothing, you know, buying clothing at thrift stores, and selling it on eBay. I did at home surveys, I worked, I did random jobs, because my goal. I was so focused on, “I need to get out of this debt”, and so, those are kind of the big changes that I did right away.

April: Wow, it sounds amazing, and I feel like you must have had so much hustle to really get it done, doing all these different jobs, and really dedicating yourself to it. So, when you paid off the $40,000, it took you a couple of years, is that right?

Lauren: It took me two years.

April: Two years, okay, so once that was paid off, can you explain the feeling that you had, like the lightness? How did it feel to know that you paid that off, and you’re like *phew*.

Lauren: Yeah, I was so proud of myself. I had really worked very, very, hard to get out of that debt but I’m going to tell you one thing, that you might be surprised by. So, I talk about my addictive spending, right?

April: Mhm.

Lauren: And I talk about this, actually, a lot on my podcast, is that a lot of times, when people have addictive spending behaviors, it’s an addictive personality all around. So, when you get rid of the spending, you can pick up on other addictions, right. And I definitely saw that when I was getting out of debt. Was that, okay, I’m not shopping, I’m now addicted to this debt right. I’m addicted to like side hustles, and all of these kinds of things, and it was still the same type of behavior that was an issue with my spending. And so, this is a disclaimer for people that think that they have a shopping problem, is that, you know, for me I needed to get therapy, I needed to learn how to not be all or nothing, and whatever I was doing in my life, which has been a journey for me over the past 15 years. But when I got out of debt, I was incredibly proud of myself, and I turned that same hustle mentality into building my business which I have today, right, and learning how to do that. So, for me I was incredibly proud of myself, and I had this drive inside of me, that I didn’t want to stop. And so, that’s how I started, you know, the business that I have today.

April: Yeah, I think it’s amazing and really identifying. I feel like you

identified, you know, what conceivably is not a weakness, but like a flaw. Something you wanted to work on, and really flipped it, and just made it into a positive for your career, and your life, and how you raise your children. And I just feel like they are also learning such good lessons from you, obviously about money, and managing, and making life work.

Lauren: Right.

April: I know you talk about it in one of your books, The Brain Science of Spending, or can you talk a little bit about the brain science from your book, The Recovering Spender, and how that sort of plays into the overall picture?

Lauren: Yeah, so, we talked a little bit about the addictive nature of spending. And I was actually a drug and alcohol counselor, before I had kids. That’s what my career was before I started all of this. And so, the brain science behind spending can be very similar to that of, you know, a drink or a drug. And so, the endorphins go off when you’re spending money, and then after the fact, then you can just really feel down and depressed. And then the cycle goes all over again, and so, you know, for me, that was an important cycle to break. And once I was able to learn how to do that, it really helped.

April: Okay, okay, so those endorphins kicking in. So, I guess, you know, endorphins are a great feeling, right. People get them from exercise, right, from shopping, from eating, from consuming all kinds of things that they love; and I feel like it’s just maybe trying to use that same brain science in a healthy way, a smart way, to benefit yourself, right, okay.

Lauren: Exactly, and one of the things I didn’t talk about in my book, but I have talked about in my online course, called Crush Your Debt, and then through my podcast, is I talk a lot about this law called the Parkinson’s Law. And so, what the Parkinson’s law is, is you spend up to the amount of money that you have available to you, so, it’s just a way to trick your brain, I guess. And so, if you look up Parkinson’s law, one of the biggest things that it has to do with spending, is that if you have all of your money available to you, all the time, like, let’s say you just keep your money in your checking account, and you don’t budget it, you’re going to spend all of that. But if you can trick your brain to move it around, and get it out of the normal checking account, and you know keep it off to the side. Or put it in, you know, I teach a five-bank account method, like to keep your bills in certain bank accounts, or you can do it with apps now, that you can really get and trick your brain into thinking that you have less money. Which, in turn, makes you more financially wise, and also keeps you very frugal, which is an interesting concept.

April: Yeah, no, I think that’s an awesome tip, and I’ve never heard that before. So, I think that’s very interesting and it makes a lot of sense, right?

Lauren: Right.

April: Yeah, so it kind of goes in with your philosophy too, regardless of the income you make, you should always just try to keep your spending low.

Lauren: Correct.

April: I guess for financial stability, retirement, right. Taking care of the big things.

Lauren: Yep, yep, and it’s a very easy method to just move to different bank accounts, and it works, it just totally works.

April: I think it’s great, and it’s simple, but sometimes it’s those simple things that you have to institute, that you would never ever, ever, think of on your own. And that’s why it’s so valuable to have somebody like you, who’s been through this journey and can really bring the practical experience of your teachings, and how you learned along the way.

Lauren: Right.

April: I think it’s really great. And again, I just wanted to go back to your podcast a little bit, because I enjoy it so much. So, I know you had Your Money Secrets, and that was sort of the idea, like okay, you know what you were dealing with, and that other people, you know, have stories that are similar. Have you had a guest on, so far, in the past two seasons, that really took you by surprise, or shocked you in some way, that you were like, wow, you just had no idea?

Lauren: Yeah, there’s two people that ring a bell for me. The first one

is, I had an Onlyfans creator on the podcast, and she was talking about the way that she deals with her finances. But one thing that never came to me, and this is a popular way for people to be making money these days, and so, I wanted to air all the dirty laundry, and say let’s talk about this. And one of the big things, that she was talking about, was about how if she decides to stop creating content, she is now unemployable, because all of her stuff is all out on the internet, and I never had thought about that before. That, you know, once we put stuff out, that is something that makes you now become unemployable, in the future. And so, she was talking about the fear of that, and about her decision to create content that way, and now she’s having issues with that. So, that was something that, for me, was a very interesting conversation. Something that I wanted to bring light to, because so many people are trying to seek that type of income.

April: Right, okay, so I was just going to ask, because I don’t know myself, if it’s on an Onlyfans account, it wouldn’t stay within that, I don’t know, guarded wall of the Internet?

Lauren: I mean it can, but also, how do you explain the gap in employment?

April: Right.

Lauren: Right, what do you say that you’ve been doing? But also, a lot of people are using, you know, Instagram and public-facing platforms to advertise those accounts.

April: Ohhh, mhm.

Lauren: And so, most people, when they’re going through a job interview, you know, most employers look through people’s social media accounts. And so, what are you putting out there in the world that you can’t take back?

April: Right.

Lauren: And that was her fear now, of being a creator, like that, for many years, that I have now just made myself unemployable to anything else. So, I’m kind of stuck in this industry, and that was not something that she had thought about, or thought through, before she started that career.

April: Yeah, that’s a great piece of advice and something to really think

about, you know with the advent of the internet. So, I have a teenage son and, you know, I always have said to him, “make sure you don’t put anything online that I wouldn’t be proud to see, or that you wouldn’t care if anybody else saw it.”

Lauren: Exactly.

April: Like everything you do, right, has to be something that you would not be afraid to show your grandmother, myself, your dad, you know, your best friend. And I just think it’s interesting that when somebody’s creating income they didn’t think of that at all before going into it. So, that’s a good tip too, because maybe a lot of people aren’t thinking about the legacy, and how the internet just stays around.

Lauren: Exactly, exactly, so that was interesting. And then a second podcast, one that I am constantly driving people back to, was a guy who runs Healthy Love and Money. His name is Ed Combs, and he is a financial therapist. We were talking about financial trauma in childhood, right, and how that affects you, and your spending moving forward. And I had a really big aha moment when we were right in the middle of taping that, when we were talking about how, you know, I was raised. I have an amazing mother, she’s actually here in my house right now as we’re taping this. One of the things that we did, when we were growing up, was every once in a while, you know I came from a family of four, we would take a mental health day from school and go shopping. That was like our girl time, I would skip school, we would go shopping, it would be like me and her time, right. I think he helped me, kind of, unpack that a little bit. That like, okay, so when I was growing up, I saw shopping as a mental health day; like a cure to a feeling, right? Let’s go take care of ourselves, have a break, have joy, like all of those things. So, then I look at the way that my spending was moving forward, throughout my life, and it was always a cure to an emotion. You know, oh, I’m stressed, I need to go shopping. Oh, I’m depressed, I need to go shopping. So, he helped me see that, you know, it wasn’t necessarily trauma for me, but the way that we were raised really affects the way that we see our money going forward. And that has been a life-changing thing for me, since I did the episode with him; and it’s so true. You know, you think of people that grew up in poverty, that didn’t have shoes, and then, now they have money, and they just can’t stop buying shoes. Because in their head, they’re just constantly thinking I need more shoes, or this person might need shoes, or I’m going to buy these shoes and send them this person. And so, that was a huge episode for me.

April: Yeah, yeah, and I bet there’s a huge population who feels similar. Because I feel like that is, kind of, one of the fallbacks, of like, I want to make myself feel better. Or as a child, going out shopping, or you know, same thing with emotional eating; like for joy, they’d go to ice cream or whatever. So, it’s a very similar situation, and I don’t think that, maybe, people think about money like that, so.

Lauren: Right.

April: Really great that he’s shining light on it, and you’re shining a light on it. To kind of try to figure out what is the core issue of my money habits or my spending problems. That’s great, so, what about for the next season. What guests do you have coming up; you want to do like a little teaser? Like who’s coming up that you’re excited about?

Lauren: Yeah, so I have a guy, and again these are like very risqué topics sometimes, because the topics that nobody wants to talk about, right. So, I have a guy coming on, who talks about how his mother stole all of his inheritance to get plastic surgery when he was a kid. So, I have embezzlement, I have a guy that’s coming on to talk about sexual addiction, and pornography, and how that affects people’s finances when they become addicted to that. I have a girl that is talking about how her eating disorder made her broke, and it was a very interesting episode. I’ve already recorded this one, it was very interesting because I thought, okay, if you’re anorexic, you don’t spend any money on food, right? But that is totally not the case, and so you’ll have some really interesting ideas on that. I also have a lady that comes on, that talks about how she manages a bunch of pro athletes’ finances and celebrities. And so, she kind of dishes a little bit about the issues that she sees when people come into a lot of money really fast, and how you can you know not do that, if you come into money really fast. So, I have a lot of really awesome, awesome, episodes. A guy who is a hospice doctor talking about the conversations that he’s had with people right before they die, and what they wish they would have done with their life, versus what they

would have done with their money. So, a lot of really amazing topics

that’ll really make you think.

April: Yeah, fascinating, I feel like all of these guests are very fascinating. Okay, so how do people find the podcast?

Lauren: For more information about me, you can go to laurencabello.com, and I can teach you how to get out of debt, how to budget. You can find my podcast, The Hard Money Talk Show on there, as well, and all of my courses, and books. But my goal is, really, to help people enjoy life on a budget, and really help you get real about your financial talks.

April: I really hope that everybody who listens to this goes and checks out your website, and all of your offerings, because I really just admire your story, and your mission, and how you relate with people, and I really think you’re doing such wonderful work.

Lauren: Thank you so much April, I’m glad to be on here. Thanks for asking me to come on!

April: Oh, my pleasure! Thank you so much, and maybe we’ll have you on again another time.

Lauren: Yeah, I’d love it!

April: Great, okay, all right Lauren, thank you!

thank you

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